Wednesday, October 15, 2014

Complicated Ordo Alert--Two Solemnities on one Weekend

A number of Coffee&Canticle readers are both:
a. very knowledgeable about the Liturgy of the Hours and 
b. very alert to LOTH news and information out on the internet.

One of these is long time blog follower Lenny Vaillencourt, who often sends me items of interest that I might have missed. Lenny actually sent me this back in August.

 All Saints Day and All Souls Day  occur on a Saturday and Sunday this year. What a headache it would be to figure out what the correct offices/masses would be said that day!

Luckily the Divine Worship Committee of the  the USCCB  has the answers for us in the  February/March issue of their newsletter  Here they are, and thanks, Lenny, for the heads up:

"In 2014, the Solemnity of All Saints on November 1 falls on a Saturday, with the Commemoration of All the Faithful Departed (All Souls’ Day) taking place on the following Sunday, November 2. The Secretariat of Divine Worship wishes to clarify the situation regarding the correct Mass and Office to be used during November 1–2.
Both All Saints Day and All Souls’ Day are ranked at no. 3 on the Table of Liturgical Days. Thus, on Friday evening, October 31, Evening Prayer I of All Saints is celebrated. On Saturday, November 1, both Morning and Evening Prayer II of All Saints Day are celebrated, though for pastoral reasons where it is the custom, Evening Prayer II may be followed by Evening Prayer for the Dead. For Sunday, November 2, the Office for the 31st Sunday in Ordinary Time is said, especially in individual recitation; the Office of the Dead may be used, however, if Morning or Evening Prayer is celebrated with the people (see Liturgy of the Hours, vol. IV, November 2).
On Friday evening, Masses are that of the Solemnity of All Saints. On Saturday evening, any normally scheduled anticipated Masses should be for All Souls’ Day. (If desired for pastoral reasons, a Mass of All Saints Day outside the usual Mass schedule may be celebrated on Saturday evening.)"

Evening Mass
Liturgy of the Hours
Saturday, November 1, 2014
All Souls (anticipated)
Morning & Evening Prayer II of All Saints (EP of the Dead optional after EP II of All Saints)

Sunday, November 2, 2014
All Souls
Individual recitation: Morning & Evening Prayer II of 31st Sunday in Ordinary Time
Celebrated with the people: Office of the Dead


  1. Daria, according to:

    All Saints is celebrated on Sunday.

    1. I'm going to go check your link, but I'm confused already, since what I quoted was also on the usccb website.

    2. Okay. Just looked. I"m still seeing All Souls, not All Saints, for November 2nd

    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

  2. Daria, even though you quoted the USCCB correctly I think the confusion is coming from the fact that Sunday is All Souls and the Mass celebrated is of that the Dead and one would expect to recite the Office of the Dead in the LOTH. However the Ordo states that the Hours if celebrated in private (as stated above) is that of the 31st Sunday in Ordinary Time. Confusing for all which is why the Bishops sent out the above notice.


  3. Here in the UK All Saints has been transferred to Sunday 2 November, and All Souls to Monday 3 November. So, EPI and anticipated Masses on Sat 1 of All Saints and MP/EPII of All Saints along with Masses throughout Sun 1 including Evening Mass. Monday 3rd MP and EP of the Dead. Terribly confusing, huh.

  4. It's complicated due to pastoral concerns. See under Contemporary Pastoral Issues #8 (near bottom of page). Saints falling on a Saturday:

  5. Very helpful advice. Thank you. I was beginning to wonder over this as date loomed.

    But to add to the rich mix, the official Australian/New Zealand Ordo 2014 states that on 2 November the Divine Office is: Hours of the day - Psalter Week 3.

    By way of comparison, the previous Sunday (30th in OT) the Divine Office is: Hours of the Sunday, Te Deum, Psalter Week 2.

    So does the Australian Ordo authorize Office of the Dead (where there's no Te Deum) on 2 November?

    [This Ordo is random in a few of its of all the plenary indulgences available throughout the liturgical year, the All Souls indulgence for the faithful departed (1 Our Father, 1 Creed, while visiting a church plus the other usual conditions) is the only one mentioned in its 136 pages.

    The Welsh and English have got it right. A solemnity like All Saints deserves to be Sunday-ized if the majority of the faithful are going to get to celebrate it.

    PS: BTW: can anyone offer some advice on how to celebrate a Votive Office as passingly referred to in the GILH? Presumably only on a feria, keeping to the four week psalter for all the hours but taking material from the appropriate propers as required?

    1. Yes, the varying ordos for 11/1 and 11/2 around the world are interesting to compare. I should have made a note in my original post to the effect that the way things were being handled in the USA was not the standard for the rest of the world. Each bishops' conference decides these things individually. The UK solution does seem logical to me, too, since All Saints is a greater and more joyous day than 11/2, and Sunday is supposed to be joyous and glorious. On the other hand, I'll bet the poor souls in purgatory are happy with the USA method, because they will be remembered by more people on a Sunday than later in the week.
      As to votive offices, you are correct that any weekday is fine for a votive office, whether of Our Lady, the Office of the dead, or even that of a favorite saint. If you click on the "General Instruction" tab above, and look at #240 thru #245, you'll see that you may even (for a good reason) do a votive office in place of a saint's feast, for example, you are visiting the shrine of a different saint or of Our Lady.